A bit over the top?
- Thread starter Djlatino
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Mods should've a better attitude not that attitude that says I get bully at school but now I've the power to give you infractions / ban.
If mods have a good attitude then members would also have a good attitude with alot of more resepect to staff but if moderators are disrespecting members on Chatbox / PM's then that shows other user they can disrespect other users cause the moderator are doing it.
Like the old slain goes be a leader not a follower.
If mods have a good attitude then members would also have a good attitude with alot of more resepect to staff but if moderators are disrespecting members on Chatbox / PM's then that shows other user they can disrespect other users cause the moderator are doing it.
Like the old slain goes be a leader not a follower.
Here's the other side of story you may not know, or you didn't bothered to know
It's so easy being a regular user on WJ (some people find it quite hard to fit in few lines of rules). You lurk, talk, make friends, and make some money on the way, if possible. You gain knowledge, have fun. That's the sole purpose of this forum.
I had impression, that moderating WJ would be a piece of cake. But when I stepped in, it's a whole new dimension, of things, that I should keep my eye on, and deal with.
Making proper decisions each and every time, is very hard, and time consuming, even for us who spend tons of time here.
Therefore, mistakes do happen, it's what naturally happens, when you work hard. Sometimes we ban member who didn't deserved it, sometimes we don't ban those who did deserved it. However, we are doing our best to keep this forum clean for YOU, and others, so you don't get scammed, don't get spammed, or abused by anyone. We are your protectors in a way. However, if you step over the line, we have to protect others from you, or even ourselves from you.
One thing, that people don't understand about forums, is that they are donation-based. Everyone here is volunteering, no one is being paid for the job, and there's a level of tolerance that MUST exist, from all 3 sides, users, moderators, and administration.
Users have to tolerate some mistakes from mods, and keep their level, same thing goes for moderators, they have to tolerate things from members. Administration have to tolerate both sides, and keep balance.
Sometimes, members can contribute 'used toilet paper' posts, sometimes, we can. We are same people as you are. So, it's not we against you, or you against us. However, we do it way less than regular members, because it's less of us, staff. Our work is more noticed, because of our position, and given privileges. Anyone who thinks, that can do better work, have a chance to prove himself, using report button, contributing to this forum. But I don't think you will do any better, because we all belong to same specie, humans.
Don't fool yourself thinking you are immune to mistakes, and know best. We never said we do know the best, we are picked because of our contribution to this forum.
Forum didn't changed a BIT, when I was just a noob, lurking here, and other members were staff. All that you read on your screen, are some new names. But everything is the same. New people come, old people go, when you observe this in closed enviroment like forum, that is everything but not surprising.
There will be always people who think they are smarter than the rest of us, probably with 0 contribution, and those who are silently contributing, with desire to see this place more cleaner, more functional. Some things never change.
Therefore, don't blame us, if we make mistakes. Maybe there's something we didn't understand. Try to explain to us, in a polite, non abusive way. In case you feel it's not possible with one member of staff, PM other one. We'll bring up issue behind doors, and make a final verdict as a team, what should be done.
It's so easy being a regular user on WJ (some people find it quite hard to fit in few lines of rules). You lurk, talk, make friends, and make some money on the way, if possible. You gain knowledge, have fun. That's the sole purpose of this forum.
I had impression, that moderating WJ would be a piece of cake. But when I stepped in, it's a whole new dimension, of things, that I should keep my eye on, and deal with.
Making proper decisions each and every time, is very hard, and time consuming, even for us who spend tons of time here.
Therefore, mistakes do happen, it's what naturally happens, when you work hard. Sometimes we ban member who didn't deserved it, sometimes we don't ban those who did deserved it. However, we are doing our best to keep this forum clean for YOU, and others, so you don't get scammed, don't get spammed, or abused by anyone. We are your protectors in a way. However, if you step over the line, we have to protect others from you, or even ourselves from you.
One thing, that people don't understand about forums, is that they are donation-based. Everyone here is volunteering, no one is being paid for the job, and there's a level of tolerance that MUST exist, from all 3 sides, users, moderators, and administration.
Users have to tolerate some mistakes from mods, and keep their level, same thing goes for moderators, they have to tolerate things from members. Administration have to tolerate both sides, and keep balance.
Sometimes, members can contribute 'used toilet paper' posts, sometimes, we can. We are same people as you are. So, it's not we against you, or you against us. However, we do it way less than regular members, because it's less of us, staff. Our work is more noticed, because of our position, and given privileges. Anyone who thinks, that can do better work, have a chance to prove himself, using report button, contributing to this forum. But I don't think you will do any better, because we all belong to same specie, humans.
Don't fool yourself thinking you are immune to mistakes, and know best. We never said we do know the best, we are picked because of our contribution to this forum.
Forum didn't changed a BIT, when I was just a noob, lurking here, and other members were staff. All that you read on your screen, are some new names. But everything is the same. New people come, old people go, when you observe this in closed enviroment like forum, that is everything but not surprising.
There will be always people who think they are smarter than the rest of us, probably with 0 contribution, and those who are silently contributing, with desire to see this place more cleaner, more functional. Some things never change.
Therefore, don't blame us, if we make mistakes. Maybe there's something we didn't understand. Try to explain to us, in a polite, non abusive way. In case you feel it's not possible with one member of staff, PM other one. We'll bring up issue behind doors, and make a final verdict as a team, what should be done.
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Cvrle77, as you said there are two sides for everything, however, you are missing the point here. The unfair moderation that users have being complaining about is not just a mistake. It's being going on since quite some time and some of these mods find it rather funny and not a mistake. That's somewhat what Robert is complaining, I mean seriously, ban reason is being a dumb ass?
Some/most moderators do an awesome job keeping the forum clean from scammers but why abuse your powers to the extend when people no longer want to visit the place? There is a fine line between fun and abuse and some moderators are crossing the line over every small thing. If you said the forum hasn't changed a bit why is that no one used to complain and all of a sudden there are tons of complains?
Edit: About explaining something politely to a staff, do you expect me to explain my side of the story politely to the mod who warned me for being a "dumb ass"?
Some/most moderators do an awesome job keeping the forum clean from scammers but why abuse your powers to the extend when people no longer want to visit the place? There is a fine line between fun and abuse and some moderators are crossing the line over every small thing. If you said the forum hasn't changed a bit why is that no one used to complain and all of a sudden there are tons of complains?
Edit: About explaining something politely to a staff, do you expect me to explain my side of the story politely to the mod who warned me for being a "dumb ass"?
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I cannot speak in other's people name, I can speak on a general level, and my own name.
However, there's one thing that you are not right about. Users always complained on something regarding moderators decisions. Even I did, when I was user, and was banned for 7 days.
However, as I said, some people find it quite hard to fit in few lines of rules. No one will touch you, if you act normal, and your behavior, and attitude is kept on a decent level, even when shit is thrown in your direction sometimes.
But, difference in positions here is, that shit is thrown at us all the time, and all staff have to deal with is crap. To moderate crap. And sometimes, when we even feel a bit of it, when dealing with tons of reports, scammers, we pull innocent people in that pile. It happens. Rarely, but it does.
We have to weed who's intentions are good, measure what user previously contributed, check if he has bad history, etc, etc, etc. There's TONS of things we measure, before kicking someone, or give infraction. Most of the time, those who are complaining, have 3-6 pages of infractions, but hey, they are still here. Even with their unacceptable behavior, 0 contribution, they are still given the opportunity to use this forum.
All this infraction thing is blown up out of proportions. Infractions are meant to warn you, that you are doing something that is not acceptable here. That means, that you should pay attention on what you are doing, and stop doing it, and not trying to fight it. It is a warning system, not a punishment. Ban is punishment, for repeated, unacceptable behavior, when infractions simply do not give desired effect.
However, there's one thing that you are not right about. Users always complained on something regarding moderators decisions. Even I did, when I was user, and was banned for 7 days.
However, as I said, some people find it quite hard to fit in few lines of rules. No one will touch you, if you act normal, and your behavior, and attitude is kept on a decent level, even when shit is thrown in your direction sometimes.
But, difference in positions here is, that shit is thrown at us all the time, and all staff have to deal with is crap. To moderate crap. And sometimes, when we even feel a bit of it, when dealing with tons of reports, scammers, we pull innocent people in that pile. It happens. Rarely, but it does.
We have to weed who's intentions are good, measure what user previously contributed, check if he has bad history, etc, etc, etc. There's TONS of things we measure, before kicking someone, or give infraction. Most of the time, those who are complaining, have 3-6 pages of infractions, but hey, they are still here. Even with their unacceptable behavior, 0 contribution, they are still given the opportunity to use this forum.
All this infraction thing is blown up out of proportions. Infractions are meant to warn you, that you are doing something that is not acceptable here. That means, that you should pay attention on what you are doing, and stop doing it, and not trying to fight it. It is a warning system, not a punishment. Ban is punishment, for repeated, unacceptable behavior, when infractions simply do not give desired effect.
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This has been a repeating issue eachtime it happened I sent a PM off to admin Loget read my PM but he didn't reply to it. Has you can seen capone hasn't even checked his PM yet about the issue.
I do agree with you CV moderators do make mistakes but not 3 months in a roll this has been an on-going issue I been complaining about it every since so have other peoples have made complaints about this moderators actions ShareShiz even made reports about action of moderators nether was he heard he was just banned off the forum mulit times.
Proof
[slide]http://i.imgur.com/KolNk.jpg[/slide]
I do agree with you CV moderators do make mistakes but not 3 months in a roll this has been an on-going issue I been complaining about it every since so have other peoples have made complaints about this moderators actions ShareShiz even made reports about action of moderators nether was he heard he was just banned off the forum mulit times.
Proof
[slide]http://i.imgur.com/KolNk.jpg[/slide]
Robert, please do read the part about tolerance.
Else, staff team would fall apart, and WJ would stop existing...
We are being bullied by users, more than all of you together are being bullied by us.
We are tolerating most of it. You're not tolerating anything. That's the main difference.
There's no thread in this forum: moderator being bullied by member, if you haven't noticed.
Else, staff team would fall apart, and WJ would stop existing...
We are being bullied by users, more than all of you together are being bullied by us.
We are tolerating most of it. You're not tolerating anything. That's the main difference.
There's no thread in this forum: moderator being bullied by member, if you haven't noticed.
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The general level sounds good theoretically but thats not what is happening. Talking about infractions, indeed infractions are a sign of warning that something you did wasn't acceptable but when infractions are given out for the smallest thing, it becomes abuse eh.
Let's change scenario, you're in a school, you called your friend who is a prefect an asshole, you get a warning letter. However when that prefect has a problem with you and calls you a dumb ass, it's perfectly fine? Yes, that's the difference between mods and members - mods have the power to do whatever they want but actually taking advantage of that power is where the problem arises.
The members are not fighting over the infractions they have received, they are fighting about the abuse. I have received one infraction and that for going off-topic yet I am sharing my opinion here when I don't have anything to "fight for".
Lastly, about members with 0 contributions and having tons of infractions yet not banned(the "asshole). You know this just means there is something wrong with the moderation then. If someone contributing and hardly has any infractions gets banned for the silliest of mistakes and the "asshole" is still around shows that there is room for improvement.
All I am saying is stop the abuse, everything is good in moderation. Don't over-do it otherwise it would just piss members off. Unless, of course that's what the WJ administration is looking for.
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Explain the forum-seller thread? He made a simple service thread and in return he gets bashed and out of no where, his site is brought into the middle and that gets bashed too?
Ok, I am not really surprised that you don't get what I wrote, and I have no intention to repeat myself. If you feel like you should, please do read everything what I wrote again.
For you, there's one side of the coin, that's your side, while not taking a bit into consideration, that there's the other side. I cannot fight against that, or will try.
It's not abuse if you get infraction for going off-topic. It's a warning that you are going off-topic, and need to change the way of what you are doing, and get back on track. This is what I've tried to explain, but seems like you are taking only the parts you like, into consideration.
For you, there's one side of the coin, that's your side, while not taking a bit into consideration, that there's the other side. I cannot fight against that, or will try.
It's not abuse if you get infraction for going off-topic. It's a warning that you are going off-topic, and need to change the way of what you are doing, and get back on track. This is what I've tried to explain, but seems like you are taking only the parts you like, into consideration.
Why don't Phamous reply here to say his side of story then
There are good mods in here like cvrle77 who have always resolve a matter by viewing the 2 sides of things
However tolerance has a limit...just like after 2-3 mistake , you staff ban normal member.Similarly after X mistake a staff should be reminded the rules and corrected.If the staff continues then admins take proper decision{demotion}
There is a clear abuse of power here in case of Phamous and he should be reprimanded for it and lets hope for a chance of attitude
There are good mods in here like cvrle77 who have always resolve a matter by viewing the 2 sides of things
However tolerance has a limit...just like after 2-3 mistake , you staff ban normal member.Similarly after X mistake a staff should be reminded the rules and corrected.If the staff continues then admins take proper decision{demotion}
There is a clear abuse of power here in case of Phamous and he should be reprimanded for it and lets hope for a chance of attitude
Who is talking about an infraction about going off-topic as abuse? I am simply talking about what happened to robert -.-
P.S: I have seeing Phamous reading this thread a couple of times, I wonder how come he doesn't have anything to say.
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I didn't go off-topic I stayed within this thread topic I got an infraction not a valid infraction cause I didn't do nothing wrong.
Reason for the infraction: For being a dumbass
Once again now if I was to call him a dumbass I would be infracted for insulting staff probably banned.
You tell me were this comes into play at has going off topic nothing an that infraction stated I went off-topic it states in that Infraction I told the truth about something cause my post was removed why is there something to hide.
Reason for the infraction: For being a dumbass
Once again now if I was to call him a dumbass I would be infracted for insulting staff probably banned.
You tell me were this comes into play at has going off topic nothing an that infraction stated I went off-topic it states in that Infraction I told the truth about something cause my post was removed why is there something to hide.
I would prefer that everyone speaks about his own case, and not bring someone else case. You probably don't know anything about what happened, so try avoiding being judgy. I don't know what happened, because I wasn't there, therefore, I am not talking about what I don't know. I am trying to simplify things for you, so you can understand that there's no perfect mod here, or anywhere.
offtopic, means that you went offtopic, which part you didn't understood? Do you see 1st post in this thread, and you overtaking whole this thread, trying to point your issue, that happened months ago?
This is exactly the case, where user gets infraction, and doesn't understand it's meaning. and instead of getting back on course, he's continuing where he headed to, ignoring staff warnings.
This is what I was talking about.... :/
offtopic, means that you went offtopic, which part you didn't understood? Do you see 1st post in this thread, and you overtaking whole this thread, trying to point your issue, that happened months ago?
This is exactly the case, where user gets infraction, and doesn't understand it's meaning. and instead of getting back on course, he's continuing where he headed to, ignoring staff warnings.
This is what I was talking about.... :/
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Everyone here is afraid to speak about there own cases CV, I spoke about my own case look what happen I got infracted for it only to have my feedback removed of how I felt staff was being over the top nether did I argue I was only stating my own opinion of how I been treated by staff.
There no point if we users don't have no freedom to speak moderators shouldn't be allowed to moderator the feedback and suggestion forum only admin should have access to this section this would probably help post from being deleted but won't stop moderators giving infraction to us.
I'm afraid to if continue speaking about my cases I'm scared it going to end up getting me banned if I release all the other infraction I've received there not point.
Neither did I say in that post was removed was I mad at phamous no I was only posting what had happen to me just sharing what we has members go through only a daily basis with unnecessary infraction / bans.
My opinion was forbidden yesterday with an infraction / post being deleted.
There no point if we users don't have no freedom to speak moderators shouldn't be allowed to moderator the feedback and suggestion forum only admin should have access to this section this would probably help post from being deleted but won't stop moderators giving infraction to us.
I'm afraid to if continue speaking about my cases I'm scared it going to end up getting me banned if I release all the other infraction I've received there not point.
Neither did I say in that post was removed was I mad at phamous no I was only posting what had happen to me just sharing what we has members go through only a daily basis with unnecessary infraction / bans.
My opinion was forbidden yesterday with an infraction / post being deleted.
You just don't get it when you are doing it wrong, don't you? And then, it's our fault, and you would like to blame us. Am I not trying to be polite, and respectful to everyone here? Do I not explain to you, that you are basically hijacking this thread, that is NOT about you?
You got your warning/infraction for going offtopic, that is what you are still doing. You probably deserved another infraction, but I won't do it, because you obviously don't understand your actions. So, here's written warning: robert, you are going offtopic, please take a look 1st post in this thread, and try to keep ontopic, without hijacking this thread. Is this better solution? Will you listen to what I just said?
Now, if I go, and delete all offtopic posts, I will be a bad guy, right?
Do you see in action, how hard is to make a right call? How everything can be seen from 2 sides?
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