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Mr Happy

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In relation to this thread http://www.wjunction.com/11-marketp...53-forum-95k-posts-6-5k-members-database.html


I don't care about this case or individual I'm arguing the fact that you can (on condition you can provide the necessary proof which in cases may require putting it live on a temp domain) sell a database.


This is ridiclous that your not allowed sell a Database on WJ.
It says you can under the rules section Goods
Only goods in relation to web sites in general may be sold.
The seller must have full rights and permission to sell the item in question. In certain cases proof may have to be provided to prove these re-sell rights. examples include but not limited to are: templates, scripts, themes, applications, or tutorials written by the seller and not third parties, custom gfx banners, avatars and icon packs
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A database is in relation to a website. If the seller was the owner of the site and sold the domain but not the database then of course he has full permission to sell the database separately. It says "examples include but not limited to" and you can't argue a DB isn't related to a webiste.

It doesn't say anywere your not allowed. I know as I wrote that rule over a year ago. It took me 3 days of modifying to get it right.

As far as that thread or member go I don't care or have any connection with him/her or the site/DB but he should be given a chance to provide proof and then sell if he wants.
 
36 comments
OK lets take SpongeBob who's site is linkplz and has now gone offline. Say he doesn't want to run a DDL anymore but want's to run a link protector site on the domain. I can easily buy the DDL database off him as it's no longer needed. In such a case I wouldn't ask for proof.


If that guy puts the database up online on say a .co.cc domain for a few days or sends a copy to a staff member who knows what they are looking at then their's no problem as it's proof.
 
Alright sure, you can do that. But, how do you know that he won't sell it again to some other buyer? you can see how that only can create various issues for members here.

I can hack a website, get it's database and claim that's its mine. All you wanted was a screenshot of the DB on the guy's computer, is that really good enough proof?
 
Mr Happy said:
OK lets take SpongeBob who's site is linkplz and has now gone offline. Say he doesn't want to run a DDL anymore but want's to run a link protector site on the domain. I can easily buy the DDL database off him as it's no longer needed. In such a case I wouldn't ask for proof.


If that guy puts the database up online on say a .co.cc domain for a few days or sends a copy to a staff member who knows what they are looking at then their's no problem as it's proof.
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this can be done in actuall :o .. and if so i have a DB to sell too >_> :P

Edit:- RT is right too ... the cons in this are more than the pros to solve them
 
And databases are so huge there can be numerous problems what happen, problems that even the seller could be unaware of. This could lead to a lot of complications and a very unhappy buyer.
 
RT said:
Alright sure, you can do that. But, how do you know that he won't sell it again to some other buyer? you can see how that only can create various issues for members here.
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Hang on. Why can't he sell a Database he owns more than once?

You often see coders selling a theme. Some say only one copy will be sold, some say only 5 copies will be sold. Some don't put a limit on it. It's their theme and their right to chose.

If a coder can sell a script or a template more than once then a webmaster is perfectly within his right to sell a Database more than once. I admit it will affect the price and he's unlikely to sell any but he can if he wants.

If he puts the site online or gives a copy to JmZ (who's staff) and confirms it's ok then their's no problem.
Sp32 said:
And databases are so huge there can be numerous problems what happen, problems that even the seller could be unaware of. This could lead to a lot of complications and a very unhappy buyer.
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But you've the same problem in selling a large website. You can have problems but if the seller provides support in getting it online then their is no problem.
 
@jay: You can't sell a domain twice, you can't find domains on the thing for free and sell them. You actually can prove that you own a domain. The marketplace is for a lot of things, I just think selling DBs would create a lot of issues for people, I can sell you a broken DB with some issues you don't even know about till it's too late.

@happy: Of course, if you agree on that. But, lets say I "promise" you that the DB will be sold to you only, do you really trust someone to do so? I could sell it to someone else and you won't even know about it.
 
RT said:
@jay: You can't sell a domain twice, you can't find domains on the thing for free and sell them. You actually can prove that you own a domain. The marketplace is for a lot of things, I just think selling DBs would create a lot of issues for people, I can sell you a broken DB with some issues you don't even know about till it's too late.
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I can sell you a broken website or script too. It can and does happen. Look at the whole Pi0 thing and the script he sold and the guy not able to get it working about 2-3 weeks ago. A DB is no different and usually easier to fix and get working than a custom script.

RT said:
@happy: Of course, if you agree on that. But, lets say I "promise" you that the DB will be sold to you only, do you really trust someone to do so? I could sell it to someone else and you won't even know about it.
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That's the same for a theme though. I "promise" to sell only one copy
 
The way I see it is people can get their hands on DBs easily on the net, the wrong way. There is noway of verifying that you or me actually own the DB we wish to sell. Do you know of way to do so? other than take a screenshot of the DB on ones PC?
 
RT said:
The way I see it is people can get their hands on DBs easily on the net, the wrong way. There is noway of verifying that you or me actually own the DB we wish to sell. Do you know of way to do so? other than take a screenshot of the DB on ones PC?
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Hell ya.. The rules don't state what level of proof is needed besides that the staff have to be convinced. If a screenshot on a PC isn't enough proof then get him to put the thing online for 2-3 days. 10 minutes reading threads on the temp site and everyone will know everything about the DB and any issues it may have.
 
I think the main reason we don't allow the sale of DB's is because in the past we've had members trying to sell stolen one's. Even going as far as downloading a DB from scriptmafia saying it's there's and being too stupid to change screenshots from the post on scriptmafia.

Just look below this thread at similar threads you'll see a thread by Luke selling a bunch of hacked DB's.
http://www.wjunction.com/11-marketplace-buy-sell-trade/6558-selling-87-052-user-database.html

After that the rule's about DB's started and have stuck since.
 
Mr Happy said:
Hell ya.. The rules don't state what level of proof is needed besides that the staff have to be convinced. If a screenshot on a PC isn't enough proof then get him to put the thing online for 2-3 days. 10 minutes reading threads on the temp site and everyone will know everything about the DB and any issues it may have.
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So, I can get a hacked DB from the net which isn't mine, put it on a domain, wait a month or so to clear all suspicion, leech a few more posts to make it look like it's actually mine and come here sell it? really Happy? can't you see how this is all messed up?
 
@WD
I can easily find loads of threads on WJ of people selling scripts or themes they don't have permission to sell either. If someone puts the DB online then it's clear after 10 minutes if it's hacked or not. In fact looking at a DB online it's far easier to tell if it's legit than a theme or script.
 
Well if you do see stolen scripts/themes there's a magic button
report.gif
;)

And that wasn't ment to sound rude. But yeah, If you/or anyone reading see's something they suspect just hit report no harm can come from it better to be safe then sorry. :)
 
What Happy is saying is that there is no way to prove that a person is selling original scripts or themes either. They can also be stolen just like a database, infact far more easily than a database. So why is there a double standard for selling databases?

If somebody knows for sure that a database is stolen, they can use the magic button too.
 
Mr Happy said:
I can sell you a broken website or script too. It can and does happen. Look at the whole Pi0 thing and the script he sold and the guy not able to get it working about 2-3 weeks ago. A DB is no different and usually easier to fix and get working than a custom script.

That's the same for a theme though. I "promise" to sell only one copy
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I knew this reply will be made :D Anyways, the script wasn't broken, only a bit outdated as you know, filehosts change ;)

@OP: I think this is a bad idea of selling databases online. I mean, I can easily find few databases online, download them and set up on my PC then post "proof" it's mine. Look at the AW twitter page, databases à volonté ;)
 
The process of verifying whether a script was coded by the OP or not, is easier compared to a DB. Ask the guy selling the script to make a structural change, temporarily. If he can do it, and knows his way in and out of the code, then it's most likely his. People looking to con other people by selling a stolen script most likely won't have any idea of the code structure within.

A theme is not a database; granted it's a digital good but you cannot put a theme and a database in the same category. A database is much more than just a skeleton layout for a website; it's content. Having the same database as 10 other sites out there is a significant risk to not only the site owner, but to the members in the database. Privacy, for example (emails), is a major concern. Obtaining a hacked database is far easier than obtaining a stolen script and/or design. Verifying whether a script or a theme is original, again, is far easier than a database.

Database sales were allowed, and then later disallowed because of the problems caused. Scripts/themes didn't result in as much headache as the database problems did, so they're still allowed and not banned. Go figure.

The same is the case with account vouchers/premium accounts; their origin is questionable, at best; you cannot verify their authenticity with as much ease as you can a script or a theme's origin, and they caused a lot of trouble in the past which is why they were disallowed.

Logically, there's no reason to disallow the sale of a database, but when you look at the problems and issues involved, it's just far easier to disallow them entirely then to deal with the crap involved in policing and verifying those sales.
 
The same goes for templates that are sold in the market place

IE: IPB,VB,phpBB,

As far as a DB theres a bunch of noobs here on WJ, They could buy the db then fail to restore it :p
 
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